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OneManRevolution
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Carrollton, TX
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 Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:31 am Post subject: follow my pen with just your eyes.... |
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What are cops looking for when they do this? Can the person taking the test 'influence' the outcome?
This seems like another BS test that has whatever result the officer says it does. After all, no one can see a persons eyes on the dash-cam. |
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Barry
CEO/NeverGetBusted.Com
Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 596
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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The "pen test" to law enforcement is called "horizontal gaze nystagmus." Nystagmus is defined as the involuntary jerking of the eyeballs. Under a microscope every person's eyeball flutters back and forth. Alcohol intoxication makes this fluttering or jerking visible to the naked eye. During a test, officers look for three things:
1) EYEBALLS LACKING SMOOTH PURSUIT--the officer has the suspect track a moving pen. Alcohol intoxication causes the eye to lack a smooth pursuit of a moving object.
2) NYSTAGMUS AT MAXIMUM DEVIATION--the officer views the eyeball when the suspect stares at a stationary pen positioned at maximum deviation meaning the furthest to the right or left. (The head is kept still and the eyes are cocked as far as they will go.) Next time you are drunk, cock your eyes to maximum deviation and you will see the room or landscape moving. This is the involuntary jerking of your eyeballs causing this.
3) NYSTAGMUS AT OR BEFORE 45 DEGREES-- Same as maximum deviation only the officer views the eyeball when the suspect stares at a stationary pen located between the nose and ear.
The horizontal gaze nystagmus test is not junk science and does work. Out of the three, officers rely mostly on number 2 described above but are suppose to administer and take into account all three. A person has to be really intoxicated to see nystagmus at or before 45 degrees. A large number of officers perform this test and are not certified to do so. If this is the case, the test can easily be thrown out of court.
Citizens can check each other for nystagmus to advise whether their friends can drive safely or not. This test can also be performed to see if marijuana causes nystagmus.
Can a person influence the outcome. Yes. Refuse to take the test or do not cock your eyes all the way for the maximum deviation test.
NeverGetBusted believes if a person is truly intoxicated to the point of losing use of their normal mental and physical faculties, they belong in jail.
Great question. Hope this helps.
Barry |
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OneManRevolution
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Carrollton, TX
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:31 pm Post subject: Thanks. |
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For the record. I also believe that if a person is intoxicated or otherwise impaired as to impose an increased threat to people and property they should be removed from the streets. The pure audacity of individual to expect others to shoulder the burden of their iresponsibilty is deplorable. Furthermore, I believe that impairment extends beyond intoxicants to sleep deprivation, emotional irrationality and severe degragation in ones mental and/ or physical facilities do to age or disorders. As an adult child of an aging parent faced with the latter issues, I'll tell you now, save the bleeding heart rhetoric.
That being said.
Do cops lie about this? Is this alone grounds for an arrest? Sorry Barry I know I ask alot of questions in between ranting and raving. |
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Barry
CEO/NeverGetBusted.Com
Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 596
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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You ask all the questions you like. I had this msg board placed here for that reason. All of your questions have been great and I like the way you write.
Yes cops lie about their findings of the horizontal gaze nystagmus.
This test alone is not suppose to be the deciding factor as to whether the person is intoxicated or not. Nystagmus along with other field sobriety tests are used to make the determination. |
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socrateez
Stoned Philosopher
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 1226
Location: I'm the person to your right.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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"Nystagmus is not to be confused with other superficially similar-appearing disorders of eye movements (saccadic oscillations) such as opsoclonus or ocular flutter that are composed purely of fast-phase (saccadic) eye movements, while nystagmus is characterised by the combination of a smooth pursuit, which usually acts to take the eye off the point of regard, interspersed with the saccadic movement that serves to bring the eye back on target. Without the use of objective recording techniques, it may be very difficult to distinguish between these conditions.
In medicine, the presence of nystagmus can be benign, or it can indicate an underlying visual or neurological problem. Over forty types of nystagmus have been classified."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nystagmus
Also:
http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/central/migraine/mav.html:
"When patients are examined acutely when vertiginous, there is usually minimal or no spontaneous nystagmus. This provides a differential feature from most peripheral vestibular syndromes. When nystagmus is present, it is often directed vertically (e.g. upbeating or downbeating). Vertically directed spontaneous nystagmus is unusual in other contexts, providing another differential point."
I suffer migraine with occasional aura and continual visual disturbances such as snow and severe floaters and flashes. Occasionally my eyes will jump in the fashion described in the above quote.
I am concerned that this technique could be easily confused with one of many very common ailments and disorders. |
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stopthemadness
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Reminds me of something. I couple of weeks ago, I am laying in bed fairly stoned. I attempted to do the whole thing where you extend your arm to your side and then bring your index finger in to touch your nose. The funniest thing happened. I brought my hand halfway and felt so good that I tried to take my head the rest of the way to meet my finger. I almost fell out of the bed. Sorry completely random but had to say it. |
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KrazyKracker
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| stopthemadness wrote: | | Reminds me of something. I couple of weeks ago, I am laying in bed fairly stoned. I attempted to do the whole thing where you extend your arm to your side and then bring your index finger in to touch your nose. The funniest thing happened. I brought my hand halfway and felt so good that I tried to take my head the rest of the way to meet my finger. I almost fell out of the bed. Sorry completely random but had to say it. |
What you smoking? You need to share..  |
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stopthemadness
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Shit, I hadn't smoked in about 4 years. I thought it what shake, but I started smoking more often and still effects me the same way. Take a few hits off my haggard ass soda can, and every thing is just fine.... I sure hope this actually makes since when I read it tomorrow. |
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Brute4291
Mod-er-rater?
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 621
Location: Zion
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Just dont look at the pen. |
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alpPDCjr12
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Southwick, MA
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Thanks. |
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| OneManRevolution wrote: | | Furthermore, I believe that impairment extends beyond intoxicants to sleep deprivation, emotional irrationality and severe degragation in ones mental and/ or physical facilities do to age or disorders. As an adult child of an aging parent faced with the latter issues, I'll tell you now, save the bleeding heart rhetoric. |
Sleep deprivation, emotional irrationality? These things may constitute a night in jail in the person is disturbing the peace or is an immediate threat, but should eventually be treated with help from a mental health professional. Putting these people in prison does not solve the problem. I am not trying to be a "bleeding heart", but we need to do more to actually prevent the crimes. Obviously some people are simply uncontrollable criminals and belong in jail. Mental instability should not be an excuse, but there are people who don't belong in jail. That should be for a court to decide. |
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