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K9Consultant
Concerned Citizen
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: Incorrect Responses by Detector Dogs |
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Well trained dogs do not exhibit their final response to any remains, or fluids of animals. What often happens is the handler is not use to seeing a orienting response (behaivor change) in training to any other odor and incorrectly believes the dog is responding to drug odor.
There is a behavior term for this but keep in mind "training is real, and real is trainig."
I just testified in Federal Court on Friday, the government had their expert in the courtroom to rebut my testimony, that this dog was unreliable, not well trained, and the Ohio State Certification and the North Americian Police Working Dog Associatoin's certification in my opinion was invalid. After 4 hours on the stand the government did not call their expert to rebut my testimony. I was extremely adiminate about the imporper certification process. Their expert is titled Master Trainer by the NAPWDA. My title now is probably not that kind. |
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socrateez
Stoned Philosopher
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 1226
Location: I'm the person to your right.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Wow! The statistics on the link you provided earlier are very clear that detector dogs are no more reliable than a polygraph test. Which also heavily depends on the testers training, experience, and similar subconscious factors all influencing his "Interpretation" of the results provided.
I believe a detector dogs real usefulness lies in the public belief that they are machine-like tools. I have seen way too much info so far indicating the opposite.
I can with all honesty say that after viewing Barry's Video, and joining this forum; I am scared to death to get pulled over by a K9. Not for fear of getting busted for dope. I rarely carry, and only one or two joints worth if i do. The chances of an innocent, wrongly profiled, getting the "routine" with a dog seem awfully high. |
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Barry
CEO/NeverGetBusted.Com
Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 595
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You said that it is a good idea to put fox urine on your tires. If you did this wouldnt the dog scratch as if weed was detected and allow the cop to check the car? |
A properly trained dog will not scratch or sit at this location. Sloppy handlers sometimes perceive the interest as a true alert and search your auto based on the false alert.
Check here for a further discussion: http://nevergetbusted.com/ngbbb/viewtopic.php?t=949
K9/ICE is accurate.
| Quote: | | pepper, repellents, |
These substance cause a dog to suddenly jerk backwards. This should alarm a K-9 officer that a repellent is near triggering the officer to search that area! There is a difference in the behavior of a dog when interested in curious odors compared to actually being repelled by a substance.
| Quote: | | Here is some quotes from Steven Nicely directly related to this topic. He is recognized as a expert K-9 witness and has several interesting articles you should check out I posted addy at bottom |
I know Steve Nicely personally and he truly is an expert in the field. The information he gives on this thread is true and correct. I'm proud to have him on the board. What a nice surprise K9Consultant. Please keep posting.
| Quote: | | (I believe detection lies in packaging and preparation first though, regardless of external conditions, be it a distraction or otherwise.) |
You are correct here. If a person can slow the permeation process allowing the stash to arrive prior to the odor permeating from its container, they are safe from K-9 alerts. This should be the focus of trying to safely transport pot.
| Quote: | | Wow! The statistics on the link you provided earlier are very clear that detector dogs are no more reliable than a polygraph test. |
I am certain Steve Nicely agrees with the following: He and I are testifying in these courts to ultimately cause the Supreme Court to re-examine the power given to drug dogs. Until the War on Drugs is repealed, it is our goal to change the law making dogs a tool to assist cops in finding drugs but taking away the dogs power to decide a 4th Amendment issue and then relay that to the handler. It is too easy for a K-9 to make a mistake for their scratch to say "you are allowed to search this American citizen."
The evidence the Supreme Court had when ruling a K-9's alert is probable cause for search was manipulated and incomplete. Since the exposure of false alerts and others providing testimony such as Steve Nicely, we expect the courts to re-examine their past ruling.
The first lower court case that decides a dog false alerted will make it to the Supreme Court. The lower court judges know this and most are unwilling to open that can of worms.
I believe in time we will find the judge with enough integrity to rule in our favor based upon the true facts regardless of the legal race it will cause.
Barry |
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socrateez
Stoned Philosopher
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 1226
Location: I'm the person to your right.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I am certain Steve Nicely agrees with the following: He and I are testifying in these courts to ultimately cause the Supreme Court to re-examine the power given to drug dogs. Until the War on Drugs is repealed, it is our goal to change the law making dogs a tool to assist cops in finding drugs but taking away the dogs power to decide a 4th Amendment issue and then relay that to the handler. It is too easy for a K-9 to make a mistake for their scratch to say "you are allowed to search this American citizen."
The evidence the Supreme Court had when ruling a K-9's alert is probable cause for search was manipulated and incomplete. Since the exposure of false alerts and others providing testimony such as Steve Nicely, we expect the courts to re-examine their past ruling.
The first lower court case that decides a dog false alerted will make it to the Supreme Court. The lower court judges know this and most are unwilling to open that can of worms.
I believe in time we will find the judge with enough integrity to rule in our favor based upon the true facts regardless of the legal race it will cause.
Barry |
I agree 100% with you Barry! I saw the injustice caused by courts ruling that legally owning a gun locked in your house was a felony if you get caught committing a drug offense. Five additional years in prison for that. That law was eventially rewritten to describe its true intent of punishing criminals who actually USE a gun IN THE COMMISSION of a crime and not legal gun owners who happen to sell pot. It took a great deal of time, money, and perseverence to see that law changed. It was upheld in the supreme court once and then finally was rewritten the second time. Noone got that time back. Noone was released. The abuse by prosecutors of that law cost literally thousands of people, thousands of years in prison time. |
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