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Brute4291
ManBearPig
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 327
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 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: Potency question |
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Does growing indoors make the weed better just because its indoors and in a controlled enviroment, or will the potency not change?
Example: If i potted and grew mexi brick weed seeds indoors, would it become more potent or stay the same. |
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3.14mpDaddy
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 39
Location: Upstate Ny
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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The reason that indoor grows produce better quality is that the plants are not subjected to natural abuse, wind, rain, insects, animals. When you take care of any plant it thrives and reaches it's natural potential.
Most everyone disses brick weed but consider that the producers want to make money so they, just like any agricultural industry, are concerned with quality. They want the best products for their investment in time and money so they start with at least reasonable quality genetics. And after being abused by nature, picked before peak ripeness, (as you can tell from the usual high quantity of green immature seeds) it is still something millions of people enjoy. It can't be that bad.
As far as if you planted some seed what would you get? depends on how green your thumb is my friend. |
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Joe
Civil Libertarian
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Brute4291 wrote: | Does growing indoors make the weed better just because its indoors and in a controlled enviroment, or will the potency not change?
Example: If i potted and grew mexi brick weed seeds indoors, would it become more potent or stay the same. |
The first basic is genetics are genetics,and from then you move to things such as dry and cure, storage, etc.
Examples:(Yours)
The same strain and identical mothers indoors and out, the indoor may seem "cleaner" (taste), but the outdoor may very well be "stronger", and many might say "smokes smoother" (cure dependent though)
The mexi seed would most likely be superior to it's parent/mother(s),due to growing methods,time of harvest, drying method, and cure.The mexi parent may be a "3-4" on a scale of 1-10, while the very same grown by you might be a "6-7"...
Bottom line: Genetics are genetics, but, various aspects may affect potency during of afterwards.
That example can also be applied to the mexi grown indoors.
Many will state how outdoors is subjected to the elements, and the resin is "washed off", which is absurd, and, comparable to stating that rain washed one's tar (resin) roof off the top of their home or building.
It may flatten it. It may alter it's shape.It will not "wash it off".
The medias claims of "increased potency of modern marijuana" is fiction/propaganda,as all modern strains have been bred from plants on the earth for thousands of years.(Actually, the pure strains are coveted over "newer" in many cases)
In places such as Afghanistan, Morocco, Thailand, they have been growing generation upon generation of the same strain(s)for possibly hundreds of years.The greatest difference probably lies not in greater strength, but in the modern world reducing potency degradation through better drying, curing, storage methods.
"Brick weed" is an extremely misused and misunderstood term as it is merely a method of packaging, and, the product can range from true garbage to astounding product.
People also are under the impression all comes from Mexico, when, in reality, Mexico is merely a stop on a journey.
There are dozens upon dozens of nations that produce it, and, Mexico is merely a more convenient stop for staging it for transport up north. (For example: One can not easily ship loads into US from Philippines,Thailand,Laos,Vietnam,South America,Central America, or a dozen or more different African nations, but it can be shipped freely into Mexican ports to brokers,so, anything coming through Mexico can have come from any of 100+ sources in 50+ nations around the world.
Which leads back to the authors question,which is genetics,methods,dry and cure and packaging which determine final quality.
The very same genetics from some of the worst samples could very well be done using different methods and create an infinitely superior product than the original.
There is "brick" of astounding quality, and brick of grade A trash.It's merely convenience of packaging and transport. |
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3.14mpDaddy
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 39
Location: Upstate Ny
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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couple corrections:
"The first basic is genetics are genetics,and from then you move to things such as dry and cure, storage, etc. "
You start off correct, you can only grow the plant to it's own genetics limit.
But then you skipped the whole growing of the plant and went into dry and cure. You skipped past: lights, water, fertilizer, pest control, fungus control, air circulation, light spectrum, ph, co2, air circulation, hygine, pruning, and many other points that go into the finaly mature plant. You are literally putting the cart (drying and curing ) ahead of the growth of a healthy plant ( the horse). If you grow a shitty plant from the best genetics, dry and cure it like a pro, you still have a shitty plant.
"Many will state how outdoors is subjected to the elements, and the resin is "washed off", which is absurd, and, comparable to stating that rain washed one's tar (resin) roof off the top of their home or building."
First off it isn't "resin" that is damaged. Resin is the tar residue in your pipe, and it isn't "washed off". The female plant during late stages of flowering produce trichome's (not tar or resin) that are mushroom shaped glands swelling larger as the plant matures. The glands holding the thc, cbn, cbd ect become more and more fragile as they get larger and more mature. They are easily broken off or knocked off by rough handling,heavy rain, or just a strong wind can knock buds together or against stems. So the only absurdity is using roofing tar as a comparable to a trichome's durability.
"The medias claims of "increased potency of modern marijuana" is fiction/propaganda,as all modern strains have been bred from plants on the earth for thousands of years.(Actually, the pure strains are coveted over "newer" in many cases)"
I guess "the media" include Cannabis publications? The scientific tests of potency for many of the Cannabis Cup winners over recent years have proven potency increase.
Try and tell the breeders that have paid for lab tests that they don't have 22% by weight THC and it's just media propaganda. Please visit some breeders seed sites and you will find several with PDF files of their test results proving potency, not just claiming it.
The plants of today are cross breed, inbreed and back breed to gain characteristics such as taste, aroma, growth pattern, maturation length, climate compatibility, color, and yes, even potency.
Might I add the rumors of a 30% strain hitting the cannabis cup this year? the previous king of potency is "white widow" with 20-22% potency.
The only people wanting "pure" strains are breeders looking for fresh genetics to back-cross with current strains to get different characteristics. They are not the same plants of today, the plants of today ARE stronger than the ones of my youth in the 1980's, and more so when compared to the strains of the 70's. It's AWESOME to be able to get high on 2 bat hits of modern hydroponic grown cannabis rather than 4 bong hits just 15 years ago. Higher potency means less abuse on the lungs, less of a stash to carry (and potentially get popped with)and greater respect of the hard work by breeders world wide.
Joe please don't take it personal, I am not attacking you, just correcting your use of bad source material regarding these points, I disagree with nothing else you have said. |
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Joe
Civil Libertarian
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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No delete-double post
Last edited by Joe on Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Joe
Civil Libertarian
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| 3.14mpDaddy wrote: | couple corrections:
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Okay. I'll take care of them now:
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But then you skipped the whole growing of the plant and went into dry and cure. You skipped past: lights, water, fertilizer, pest control, fungus control, air circulation, light spectrum, ph, co2, air circulation, hygine, pruning, and many other points that go into the finaly mature plant. You are literally putting the cart (drying and curing ) ahead of the growth of a healthy plant ( the horse). If you grow a shitty plant from the best genetics, dry and cure it like a pro, you still have a shitty plant.
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This is incorrect.
"genetics are genetics"
The things you refer to (not applicable since we were addressing outdoor farms) will affect yield, not potency.
A spindly, poorly grown plant grown to proper harvest time will be the exact same potency and quality as a plant grown in one of the most talented growers and constructed rooms.
Genetics are genetics.Potency and quality is potency and quality. All other factors regarding growth affect yield.
From harvest, those issues mentioned can affect quality and potency which is why they were specifically addressed.Example: It is quite easy to take a superior plant and strain and through harvest,dry,cure,packaging and storage for it to turn into something different.
Point: Do you think grade a trash import brick was such when cut? Hardly.
Original threadstarter: Those seeds you task out of brown, moldy(ammonia) brick will not yield brown, ammonia smelling product. They will be nice green and fruity/skunky smelling plants.
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First off it isn't "resin" that is damaged. Resin is the tar residue in your pipe, and it isn't "washed off".
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No. It is. Many different things can have resin.
Ever hear the term "___ strain is extremely resinous"
That statement signifies a lacking in knowledge. The word is not used only for Cannabis.It is applicable to all similar forms.Try doing a search on "marijuana+resin" and see what comes up  ...
Your woefully out of your depth here my friend.
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The female plant during late stages of flowering produce trichome's (not tar or resin) that are mushroom shaped glands swelling larger as the plant matures.
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Trichomes are indeed "resin", and, yes, a "tar".If you have ever touched them(wet) you would know this.
To people who acknowledge they have not: What you will encounter when touching a plant before harvest is extremely sticky tar (resin/trichomes) which cannot be "washed" off, but must be dissolved either by alcohol or oil), hence most prefer to use surgical gloves when handling, and trimming.(or will keep a bowl of alcohol to rinse hands when finished, and later turn into oil for their personal consumption)
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They are easily broken off or knocked off by rough handling,heavy rain, or just a strong wind can knock buds together or against stems. So the only absurdity is using roofing tar as a comparable to a trichome's durability.
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They cannot be "knocked off" until they are dry.Until the plant is cut, and dried,they cannot be "broken" or "knocked off"
Nothing is more applicable than roofing tar.
Quite a suitable analogy.
Get your facts straight. We are discussing topics even a novice grower would know.
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I guess "the media" include Cannabis publications? The scientific tests of potency for many of the Cannabis Cup winners over recent years have proven potency increase.
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Well, if there were tests done throughout history, one would be able to compare, but, there is not.
It should also be noted that products submitted for testing are specific individuals which the breeders chose. Not necessarily a representation of all stock, as all are not uniform, even in things that display a degree of uniformity.
Furthermore it should be noted that the most sought after "elites" have come from bagseed.Not breeders.
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Try and tell the breeders that have paid for lab tests that they don't have 22% by weight THC and it's just media propaganda.
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Ummm,common misconception by the uninformed.THC percentages and levels are not by weight.
To readers who are not aware, if would be the percentage of the sample."By weight" signifies that 22% of the weight is THC.
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The plants of today are cross breed, inbreed and back breed to gain characteristics such as taste, aroma, growth pattern, maturation length, climate compatibility, color, and yes, even potency.
Might I add the rumors of a 30% strain hitting the cannabis cup this year? the previous king of potency is "white widow" with 20-22% potency.
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30% has already been broken.(2nd of all, WW's test rates are somewhere around 12%, illustrating resin and potency don't necessarily go hand in hand.)
It should also be note to those with an interest in this topic who do not smoke, or have ever smoked,that potency only matters to a degree.Taste and all above mentioned are sometimes more important to some. (Some of the best tasting and most preferred are no where close to the highest rated contents.
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The only people wanting "pure" strains are breeders looking for fresh genetics to back-cross with current strains to get different characteristics. They are not the same plants of today, the plants of today ARE stronger than the ones of my youth in the 1980's, and more so when compared to the strains of the 70's.
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You sound like a DARE ad.Your preferences and opinions are that. Not fact.
I would read your statement as saying: The strains and product that you GOT 15yrs ago are not the same. (Could you afford 400 an ounce 15yrs ago?,most could not.In fact, many (as in many) would readily state that the 70's and 80's produced things which they consider the best they have ever seen, not to be seen again. (I would be included in that group)
Incorrect: example-one could take 2 landrace strains from completely opposite ends of the world, cross, and create something more potent than the original parents.(or not..)Likewise, generations could cross pollinate others in same region, to, once again, create individuals which may, or may not be stronger. Some may finish quicker, others may not, and, some of the progeny may very well have less potency and undesirable characteristics.
To say "pot is stronger now" is propaganda. Not in all cases by a longshot.(Breeding for potency is not a breeders only target.Can be quicker finishing, heavier resin content and production, can be flavor and aroma as you yourself seem to have picked up somewhere (and, that one was correct btw.)
| Quote: |
It's AWESOME to be able to get high on 2 bat hits of modern hydroponic grown cannabis rather than 4 bong hits just 15 years ago. Higher potency means less abuse on the lungs, less of a stash to carry (and potentially get popped with)and greater respect of the hard work by breeders world wide.
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Abuse on lungs as you stated can very well be cure, or lack of, or improper cure.Not directly connected to potency. Incorrect.
Furthermore, many people are growing the same strains indoors that they were 15yrs ago. In fact, indoor and hydro was going on far before 15yrs ago.
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Joe please don't take it personal, I am not attacking you, just correcting your use of bad source material regarding these points, I disagree with nothing else you have said. |
And feel free to do the same. Your statements not supported by fact and would be corrected by even a 1st year novice grower.
Considering you call "resin" what lies in a pipe, and THC %'s by weight,you obviously have very little knowledge and experience with it.
Your quite mistaken on almost all (all) points above. Do some research, educate yourself before making comments.
Resin  That's what it's called, and referred to, and, the proper name, and, it is a sticky tar.
Note for those who are curious:
Hashish/Hash is of course trichomes, in some regions and methods they dry and then break them, as above (Morocco for example) and then press them, in other regions (Afghanistan,Nepal),they rub the plants with their hands, scraping it off their hands and kneading it into balls, or pressing into bricks.There are also other methods of course, just an example. Oil is produced by dissolving (remember, alcohol soluble)trichomes.
You want to talk facts, corrections, reality, well, here you go. |
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Brute4291
ManBearPig
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I think that trichomes are knocked off during the packing stage, the elements (wind, etc.) may not let the plant grow to its potential such as having a high stress on the plant. This high stress can casue the plant to stop producing resin and letting the trichomes dry and be broken off.
In what i have read plants do grow better in controled rooms better than outdoors, like i think the more light you have the better it is and having plant food and other such "tricks" to having a healthy plant.
Potency has increased over the years because of breeding plants together and getting the "cream of the crop" In my opinion the actual plants grown outdoors is still around the same potency as it was 10 years ago.
this is just my opinion though. |
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Joe
Civil Libertarian
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Brute4291 wrote: | Personally, I think that trichomes are knocked off during the packing stage,
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They are. If you dumped a lb of dried and cured on a table and re-bagged, you might get, maybe, if lucky, about .1 of a gram.(probably less, a gram of kief is more than most think)
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the elements (wind, etc.) may not let the plant grow to its potential such as having a high stress on the plant. This high stress can casue the plant to stop producing resin and letting the trichomes dry and be broken off.
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There are some who consider resin production a defensive reaction.
Resin production is genetic through entire lifespan. 2 identical plants (clones) from same mother would appear identical if different conditions. Yield would be number one issue.(1 foot, uncared for plant, 8 foot maintained bush. Both would appear identical in quality and resin if all factors aside exact (finishing times, etc) Quality, resin, potency the same. (quality would vary, because maintained plant would probably taste and burn better depending on feedings and diet)
Drying and falling off would mean the plant has essentially died,and, the buds and resin are dry.
Otherwise, no. Doesn't happen.
When it's growing, and it's drying, they are wet, they are sticky. They cannot be "knocked" off.(They can be "smudged".They can be "flattened"."Crushed".They cannot be "knocked off".It's a sticky tar ("resin").If it could be knocked off, you wouldn't have someone having to clean their hands in alcohol to get it off their hands;).
A windy spot would be extremely desirable btw for outdoor plants.(stronger plant, less mold issues late season)
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In what i have read plants do grow better in controled rooms better than outdoors, like i think the more light you have the better it is and having plant food and other such "tricks" to having a healthy plant.
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Indoor doesn't touch outdoor regarding available light. Never has, never will.
Growth indoors (growth rates) don't match outdoors.
"Controlled", regarding indoors: The point is to try and reach "optimal". That would include all necessary issues corresponding with all others, referred to as "dialed in".For example: with limited light, nutrient use is restricted. With introduction of C02, feedings will increase. Each and every factor plays off one another.
Outdoors, light received is maximum, and, as long as diet and soil in line, there is also an "optimal" for outdoors.
Most experienced in both will say outdoor seems more potent, and taste, but indoor tastes "cleaner" (minus contaminants, rain, etc.Depends on climate and region. (Some areas no rain.)
Indoor vs. outdoor is more a matter of preference. (regarding quality)Yields of course superior outdoors, indoor rarely can come close.
"Better" is completely subjective.
Indoor growing was not developed, nor is it utilized because it is preferred.Indoors was developed out of necessity to avoid eradication efforts.
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Potency has increased over the years because of breeding plants together and getting the "cream of the crop" In my opinion the actual plants grown outdoors is still around the same potency as it was 10 years ago.
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It all depends on individuals.(mothers,fathers,stock)
Outdoors,or indoors, any breeding program will turn out a wide variety of individuals in the stock, some good, some great, some bad, quick finishers, longer finishers, different structures,different taste,etc.Same occurs in nature. A wide range of individuals.Some could be off the charts as far as potency, some lacking.
There was quite a bit of things around 10-20yrs ago that don't even come close to what is available today, and many strains actually available back then are turning up now and highly desired, as in case of M39 (mid 80's).
All about the individuals (as above, many elites are from bagseed origin)
Sorry to sound harsh at anytime, but, I addressed matters factually.
On that note:"Resin","knocking off" trichomes.
In many regions, the way the produce they hash is to get field hands to rub the plants.The glands do not "fall" on the ground, they stick to their hands.At some point, they then cease the process, and scrape hands, and roll the resin into a ball.
Growers will also use surgical gloves whole handling fresh,drying so as to keep it from sticking to their hands (not from "falling of"),from sticking,and sticking to everything else, and having to clean hands.There is no "knocking off" of trichomes when discussing a fresh or half dry plant.Doesn't happen.
Anyone who has ever touched a plant know this.(People who don't wear gloves outdoors know this by their hands sticking to the steering wheel driving home like glue and being able to scrape their wheels for hash.)
Then you have scissor hash (doesn't fall, sticks to scissors)
Tar.Resin.
Clarification btw:
Is "pot" stronger today than it was 5-10-15-20yrs ago?
Yes, some is.
Some isn't.
Some is the same.
2.Does that mean everyone is getting it?
Nope.Not by a longshot.
For every 20+% strain there are 200 under 10% that people like in some cases more.(due to taste, flavor, etc) So, no, it is an inaccurate statement and propaganda, used to change how the public as a whole thinks of it.
On that note:Yes, exact time of harvest can not only affect %, but cure and dry also affect levels of all other cannabinoids. Wet? , may be 8%,couple days dry?, may reach 12,couple weeks cure, may reach 18%,90 day cure, done right?, might be into the 20%.
Point being, blanket statements about quality are impossible to make.
All brings us back to square 1.That brown , moldy border brick could very well be a 14% strain, until it was laid out in the sun for a week to dry, then sprayed down water with pounds of sugar, then pressed into a bale and on it's way to mold. |
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dawsonspaw
Activist
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 216
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I would read your statement as saying: The strains and product that you GOT 15yrs ago are not the same. (Could you afford 400 an ounce 15yrs ago?,most could not.In fact, many (as in many) would readily state that the 70's and 80's produced things which they consider the best they have ever seen, not to be seen again. (I would be included in that group). |
I would agree with that statement whole heartedly,the best I ever had was literally 1 hit quit,I have never had any as potent as I had in the early 80's. |
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socrateez
Cannabis Castaway
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 729
Location: Furiously rubbing two sticks together!!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| dawsonspaw wrote: | | Quote: | | I would read your statement as saying: The strains and product that you GOT 15yrs ago are not the same. (Could you afford 400 an ounce 15yrs ago?,most could not.In fact, many (as in many) would readily state that the 70's and 80's produced things which they consider the best they have ever seen, not to be seen again. (I would be included in that group). |
I would agree with that statement whole heartedly,the best I ever had was literally 1 hit quit,I have never had any as potent as I had in the early 80's. |
I thought that was true as i was spoiled on skunk in the 80's in L.A. Midwest pot was all brick and shitty amateur hydro during the 90's and recent. I'm back in the south west again. I recently tried white widow and can say it nearly made me pass out. Made my hands,feet,face tingle upon exhalation. Good shit! Purple Kush is better flavored.
I think you have to consider that you are jaded to the effects as you age as well. It's not as novel a sensation at 60 as say it was at 20. I have younger associates who get hammered on what i consider average toke. Personal perspective is everything. |
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trox9999
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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"genetics are genetics"
Genetics are genetics.Potency and quality is potency and quality. All other factors regarding growth affect
Joe,
Just to point somthing out to you. Genetics are not simply Genetics, Genes change over time. Have you ever heard of Genetic mutation or Evolution. Humans for example over time build certain resistance to disease which is naturally passed on to infants through genes there was a time when people would die of simple things like pox,scarlet fever,the flu etc Humans don't look the same today as they did thousands of years ago,its called adaptation.
For example if the earth gets warmer and drier than plants will have to genetically mutate or adapt to produce a coating to protect themselves or face extinction ie) the marijuana plant produces higher levels of Trichomes
If Genes were genes everything today would look the exact same as 40,000 years ago. Just take blood type for example in the primitive stage there was only type O, now there are 4 types O,A, AB,and the newest type B, all mutated for human survival and changes in climate, and diet etc,
If your interested research it on Wikipedia for example the first thing it states is
"Genetics is the science of heredity and variation in living organisms.[1][2] Knowledge of the inheritance of characteristics has been implicitly used since prehistoric times for improving crop plants and animals through selective breeding" |
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High Man
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Space
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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La la la just keepin it real...
| Quote: | Many will state how outdoors is subjected to the elements, and the resin is "washed off", which is absurd, and, comparable to stating that rain washed one's tar (resin) roof off the top of their home or building.
It may flatten it. It may alter it's shape.It will not "wash it off".”
They cannot be "knocked off" until they are dry.Until the plant is cut, and dried,they cannot be "broken" or "knocked off" |
This is not true. Wind and rain will wash or blow off trichomes.
Usually if it happens early to mid flowering then the buds should be alright (as anything knocked/washed off will grow back), but a good storm before one is about to harvest will damage overall quality.
Plenty of grow guides attest to this fact.
| Quote: | Nothing is more applicable than roofing tar.
Quite a suitable analogy. |
No, all arguments from analogy are fallacious arguments. They just don’t work in the real world.
And also, tar is not in any way applicable. You should try sticking to the plant kingdom if you want to make analogies concerning plants. Like, comparing the resinous trichomes of cannabis to the resin on a venus fly trap would be more applicable.
| Quote: | | Get your facts straight. We are discussing topics even a novice grower would know. |
Woah. Considering some of the so called “facts” you are proposing are not true, making this off hand ad hom comment is pretty lame. I would suggest that EVERYONE before they say anything do a wiki or google search before they make claims, as this will greatly help with the professionalism of the board and website as a whole. Being courteous is always helpful too.
| Quote: | | The medias claims of "increased potency of modern marijuana" is fiction/propaganda |
SOME of it is propaganda, and some of it is blown way out of proportion and exaggerated, but truth be told, there is a lot of modern marijuana that IS more potent than marijuana from the past. Not all cannabis that is consumed by most of the general population of the world is such bud I would say, but there are grow labs that pump out cannabis that has a potency ranging over 15%, up to 25% and 35%. Such is just literally phenomenal and is not something one would probably ever see in the natural world outside of one or two extreme circumstances. No one up until modern times has produced cannabis that is 25+% THC. And the reason for that is because of advanced growing techniques and human selection of plants with specific chemotypes.
| Quote: | "Brick weed" is an extremely misused and misunderstood term as it is merely a method of packaging, and, the product can range from true garbage to astounding product.
People also are under the impression all comes from Mexico, when, in reality, Mexico is merely a stop on a journey.
There are dozens upon dozens of nations that produce it, and, Mexico is merely a more convenient stop for staging it for transport up north. |
I don’t think we’re getting brick weed from shipped to Mexico from other countries. Maybe in small amounts, but if you look at brick weed, whether it’s brown or green, and while potency varies (usually with color, aroma, and seed content), it is clearly all of the same strain, and that strain as far as anyone can tell is Mexican brick.
It is my understanding that Mexican brick is grown in Mexico for mass shipment to the USA, just like ‘beasters’ are grown in Canada for mass shipment to the USA. I rarely see a different strain of brick weed that would lead me to think that it was coming from somewhere outside of Mexico, Jamaica or islands thereof, or possibly central America (which I would be more likely to say is producing the cocaine that comes into this country, not the grass). When I do see a different strain, I figure that’s the stuff produced in a place like Jamaica as opposed to Mexico.
I would be eager to hear any current or ex law enforcement personnel’s opinion and knowledge of that issue though.
| Quote: | The things you refer to (not applicable since we were addressing outdoor farms) will affect yield, not potency.
A spindly, poorly grown plant grown to proper harvest time will be the exact same potency and quality as a plant grown in one of the most talented growers and constructed rooms.
Genetics are genetics.Potency and quality is potency and quality. All other factors regarding growth affect yield. |
Its kind of hard to understand what you mean when you say genetics are genetics and potency is potency, what is that even supposed to mean?
Light, temperature, growspace, nutrients, etc, AND genetics, all play a part in affecting BOTH potency and yield.
This is why plants grown indoors typically have more THC than plants grown outdoors, because grown under the right conditions using advanced techniques, humans can push cannabis beyond its natural limit of THC production.
Now genetics will play a part here too, as over time humans can (and have) pick those plants we find most desirable, selecting the plants with the highest THC content for instance, breeding those plants under the best conditions again and again to keep selecting for the traits we want most.
In the end if done right, which we have, we end up with plants that are 25%, 35%+ THC like there are in certain grow labs that have gone through this process. But, take that 35% THC plant and put it in conditions that are not as optimal as they could be, and you won’t wind up with a plant that is as good. So “genetics is genetics”, but selection, evolution, and just how well a plant is grown all play important parts.
| Quote: | Ummm,common misconception by the uninformed.THC percentages and levels are not by weight.
To readers who are not aware, if would be the percentage of the sample."By weight" signifies that 22% of the weight is THC. |
I don’t understand what you are trying to say here because you completely contradict yourself. You say THC percentages are not by sample weight, and then say in the second sentence that they are.
In any event, if one were to measure the ratio of plant material to THC then the percent THC vs. other material within the sample would be a measure of (dry) weight. In other words, if a sample comes back as being 22% THC, then that would mean 22% of the sample was THC, and 88% was other stuff.
Now usually multiple samples from different areas of the same plant are taken and tested for comparison and to check results. When data is extrapolated, it is safe to say that a plant is X% THC (even though only a small portion of the plant may have been tested). So say for example a grower sent out samples of his plant for lab testing and they came back saying they contained 22% THC by dry weight then it would be safe to say the plant as a whole contains 22% THC by dry weight.
A great article I came across that you should read is http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/full/91/6/966
Among trying to resolve the sativa/indica/ruderalis species problem through genetic means, it describes sampling methods for cannabinoid content.
| Quote: | | You sound like a DARE ad.Your preferences and opinions are that. Not fact. |
Actually he’s pretty much correct. The best weed of today is nothing like weed from yesteryear. That doesn’t mean the same shit from yesteryear isn’t still around. But growers took Strawberry Fields and Acapulco Gold and made them better through evolution and growing techniques.
| Quote: | | In fact, many (as in many) would readily state that the 70's and 80's produced things which they consider the best they have ever seen, not to be seen again. (I would be included in that group) |
Then you and those people:
A: Have not been to Amsterdam.
B: Have not been to Canada.
C. Have not found a decent US home grower.
Not to knock what you may have smoked, but I’ve broken up buds that were basically stem and crystals and kept me high for a couple days. If you have not smoked something that is not better than anything back in the 80's you've smoked then you are getting ripped off.
| Quote: | | To say "pot is stronger now" is propaganda. Not in all cases by a longshot. |
Of course not in all cases but in many cases modern growers have pushed cannabis above and beyond the THC contents we used to see due to more advanced growing techniques and knowledge that we didn’t have.
I guess you’ve never seen pot that wasn’t quite pot LoL
| Quote: | | (Breeding for potency is not a breeders only target. |
No but usually it is the main target and for many breeders HAS been such a target, which is why we have strains now that routinely produce 15+% THC and growers that can push THC production beyond those limits to 25% and 35+%.
25%!!! ONE FOURTH (just about, science is never exact), of an entire plant is just THC. That is beyond anything in nature. It just would not happen under most natural circumstances.
Now to correctly answer the initial poster’s question:
Does growing indoors make the weed better just because its indoors and in a controlled environment, or will the potency not change?
Growing indoors allows one to control the environment weed is growing in, which in the end will affect potency, either for the better OR worse (cause you could screw up and not have a good environment, and thus not grow something to its full potential).
“Example: If i potted and grew Mexi brick weed seeds indoors, would it become more potent or stay the same.”
It has the potential to be worse, stay the same, or be better. Under optimal conditions you could probably grow insanely potent Mexican brick. Or grow some crap. It just all depends. Usually it would be better because oftentimes those Mexicans don’t pick the males, resulting in fertilized females, which is why all the brick we see usually has at least some seeds (and fertilization reduces both potency and overall yield of SMOKABLE bud). |
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Joe
Civil Libertarian
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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I am not about to go through all that and correct everything that is incorrect.
It would take far too much time, but, the fact is, basically nothing you have said is correct, and, by the word selection,phrasing/delivery and points you attempt to make, it is quite clear to anyone that you have very little actual knowledge of the plant, or growing.
But.....what the hell...just for fun, let's try a few
1.(This caught my eye, and I thought particularly amusing  lol
"while potency varies (usually with color, aroma, and seed content"
Color, aroma and "seed content" lolol
Potency varies with color and aroma and seed content? lolol
Your ridiculous......truly lol
2.This was a classic lol
I don’t think we’re getting brick weed shipped to Mexico from other countries.
Really?.....so then where exactly does the production 1000x that of Mexico come in from 60 other countries? lol
Your clueless....truly.....
I could continue, but, while amused, am also annoyed at even wasting a moment to address someone who makes such ridiculous claims throughout, in an attempt to "correct", and then take the position their claims are what poster is after and "keeping it real" lolol
Amsterdam? lololol
Amsterdam is for newbie/amateurs lolol
For "tourists" lolol
Wait...maybe one or two more? lol
| Quote: |
Example: If i potted and grew Mexi brick weed seeds indoors, would it become more potent or stay the same.”
It has the potential to be worse, stay the same, or be better. Under optimal conditions you could probably grow insanely potent Mexican brick. Or grow some crap. It just all depends
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Nooooooooooo.......it doesn't "depend" lolol
It will be exactly as genetics determine it to be.....
If the strain smells like berries, tastes like grapes, and is 19%...then that is what you will produce...
Skill and environment and method will determine your yield...
But not the above....which are genetically determined before you even germ them...
Really.........where do these people come from, and where do they hear these things....
| Quote: |
n any event, if one were to measure the ratio of plant material to THC then the percent THC vs. other material within the sample would be a measure of (dry) weight.
In other words, if a sample comes back as being 22% THC, then that would mean 22% of the sample was THC, and 88% was other stuff.
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It is not dry weight.....
This guys ridiculous.....truly, you are....
Now, go read some more about those "drug labs" you talk about lolol
(You'd know what you were talking about if you ever ran one lolol
Comical to say the least......"labs".....THC tested by weight lolol
aroma determining potency lol
"Labs" lolol
Yeah, this ones an authority , no doubt lolol
Labs lololol
Virtually everything you said was inaccurate btw....
Threadstarter....
Genetics are genetics.
If you grow out a 16% blueberry cross, that is exactly what you will have
If you grow out a racy sativa that tastes like socks with an aftertaste of dead skunk in diaper....that is what you will end up with, regardless of method (soil,hydro,coco,etc) or other elements..(Co2,1k or a 20k.......or flouro's....)
Genetics are genetics......
Don't listen to these idiots.... |
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Joe
Civil Libertarian
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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"Grow labs"........
YEEEEeah.
Listen to that guy.....he really knows what he's talking about...
GROW LABS!!!!!!
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Joe
Civil Libertarian
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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Couldn't resist......
This is a "grow" forum btw.......
Would be nice if those who didn't grow, not know anything about it, stuck to other forums....
| High Man wrote: | La la la just keepin it real...
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Let's see about that, shall we?
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Woah. Considering some of the so called “facts” you are proposing are not true, making this off hand ad hom comment is pretty lame. I would suggest that EVERYONE before they say anything do a wiki or google search before they make claims, as this will greatly help with the professionalism of the board and website as a whole. Being courteous is always helpful too.
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See, those of us who know what we speak don't have to run to google it every time we see something.....
They guys knows so much he sat and googled who knows how many things
Wiki is written by people btw, and, I am concerned when I think possibly by people like you : lol:
(You did the ":grow lab" entry, didn't you )
| Quote: | but there are grow labs that pump out cannabis that has a potency ranging over 15%, up to 25% and 35%.
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Name a 25 strain.
Name a 35 strain.
Hell, try a 15.....
Should be easy for someone so knowledgeable....(VERY easy
| Quote: |
No one up until modern times has produced cannabis that is 25+% THC
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How is THC content measured?
(go ahead to wiki....I can wait...while your at it, see if they give you any of the labs the breeders use for their specimens? (probably not in wiki, but, common knowledge to anyone who has a clue about such matters, I assure you...
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if you look at brick weed, whether it’s brown or green, and while potency varies (usually with color, aroma, and seed content), it is clearly all of the same strain, and that strain as far as anyone can tell is Mexican brick.
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This I love...I truly do
All brick is clearly of same strain and "as far as anyone can tell" it's Mexican?
so......(bear with me.......)
Brown or green,potency varies....color varies...aroma varies...and "seed content" varies.....
It's clearly all the same strain?
(Not, you don't have to be a grower to see that statement........
looks different,smells different, tastes different,but, clearly the same strain
"growing tips".......GROWing....
| Quote: |
Mexico, Jamaica or islands thereof, or possibly central America (which I would be more likely to say is producing the cocaine that comes into this country, not the grass).
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Central America not know for it's production? ....
Never been there, have ya?
:lol
| Quote: |
Its kind of hard to understand what you mean when you say genetics are genetics and potency is potency, what is that even supposed to mean?
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I understand.........
I do.....
Only a grower or an advanced consumer would know what I mean...
Potency,taste,color,yield,structure.....everything about a strain is genetically determined.
Your blue strain is going to be blue depending on the individuals......
Your early/quick strain is going to be quick.....(if from seed, little variance....)
Doesn't matter if 1k's.......doesn't matter if outdoors....doesn't matter if a 20k.......
Genetics are genetics.....
You acquire certain genetics to produce the plants with those specific traits strain is known for....
(I am doing this at this point more for those who are genuinely curious, then for you.....Your clearly an "armchair" kind of guy from statements made.....
| Quote: |
Light, temperature, growspace, nutrients, etc, AND genetics, all play a part in affecting BOTH potency and yield.
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Incorrect.
Finished produce will be the same whether grown in coco under a 400, planted outdoors,E&F with hydroton as part of a 12k using AN....(of GH 3 part, or FN series....)
Ever hear the phrase "woefully out of your depth"?
(I'm sure you have......)
| Quote: |
This is why plants grown indoors typically have more THC than plants grown outdoors, because grown under the right conditions using advanced techniques, humans can push cannabis beyond its natural limit of THC production.
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"advanced techniques" ......
Plants grown indoors typically have more THC than out......
......
Are you referring to more resin?....or you referring to a tested sample of product? ......
genetics are genetics.......
MNS CM is MNS CM....whether in or out.......floros,400 or 1k......
Never done either, have you?
(yeah, I know, I'm being a prick bout I have a thing about people spouting about a subject they have no direct knowledge or experience with...
Grow labs
Yeah, your a pro....that's for sure .....
"Hey guys, don't tell me....I know about those grow labs"
| Quote: |
Now genetics will play a part here too, as over time humans can (and have) pick those plants we find most desirable, selecting the plants with the highest THC content for instance, breeding those plants under the best conditions again and again to keep selecting for the traits we want most.
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I'd love to know more about your breeding techniques........and what kind of "grow lab" you have .....
| Quote: |
In the end if done right, which we have, we end up with plants that are 25%, 35%+ THC like there are in certain grow labs that have gone through this process. But, take that 35% THC plant and put it in conditions that are not as optimal as they could be, and you won’t wind up with a plant that is as good. So “genetics is genetics”, but selection, evolution, and just how well a plant is grown all play important parts.
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"certain grow labs that have gone through the process"......
Don't forget to name those strains above...
| Quote: |
In any event, if one were to measure the ratio of plant material to THC then the percent THC vs. other material within the sample would be a measure of (dry) weight. In other words, if a sample comes back as being 22% THC, then that would mean 22% of the sample was THC, and 88% was other stuff.
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THC percentages in tested samples are not, nor ever have been dry weight,.....
For those curious....do you think you will dry sift,ISO/QWISO/BHO,or do bubble run and get a quarter pound?
That's what they are saying when talking about dry weight
That a lb is actually up to 35% resin
(To anyone who has ever done a bubble run with a 4% return, well, so much for that (and, THC is not 100%, so./.....would be actually then a quarter of your return that might be pure depending on your bubble technique.....
35% of dry weight
YYYYyeah...... half pound return running a p
(THC not only content of resin of course...only one of hundreds of components of resin..which is what tests are measuring....
Nothing to do with dry weight.....(That statement could actually then be applied to trim, since that is what many use for iso/bho,dry sift and bubble runs....
Trim that's 35%?......wow.....market the strain.....you'd make a million by Christmas....
(You really would.......would fetch $500 a pack easy if 35% by dry weight even on trim
| Quote: |
Now usually multiple samples from different areas of the same plant are taken and tested for comparison and to check results. When data is extrapolated, it is safe to say that a plant is X% THC (even though only a small portion of the plant may have been tested). So say for example a grower sent out samples of his plant for lab testing and they came back saying they contained 22% THC by dry weight then it would be safe to say the plant as a whole contains 22% THC by dry weight.
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Not measured by dry weight, addressed above. (Yes, common knowledge to even a novice grower who knows his business.....)
| Quote: |
Actually he’s pretty much correct. The best weed of today is nothing like weed from yesteryear. That doesn’t mean the same shit from yesteryear isn’t still around. But growers took Strawberry Fields and Acapulco Gold and made them better through evolution and growing techniques.
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Interesting, since, as above, certain things highly in demand right now are from stock of the 80's...
Go read another article....
Acapulco gold huh?........
Do you know why anything would be gold?
| Quote: |
Then you and those people:
A: Have not been to Amsterdam.
B: Have not been to Canada.
C. Have not found a decent US home grower.
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As above......Amsterdam is kiddieland and has not been the "place to be" for at least 15 years....
Amsterdam...Canada
Yeah, Amsterdam sure the place to be if you prize product that has been kiefed,cut early, dried half ass and no cure......
(Where do people think all the hash, oil, and edibles come from?
Can you say "sucker"
| Quote: |
Not to knock what you may have smoked, but I’ve broken up buds that were basically stem and crystals and kept me high for a couple days. If you have not smoked something that is not better than anything back in the 80's you've smoked then you are getting ripped off.
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You have no knowledge of strains....so......your comments pointless..(don't forget to name the 25 and 35 strains...in between also if you can
| Quote: |
I guess you’ve never seen pot that wasn’t quite pot LoL
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See, another reason why I figured I'd slap you a little......
No.......it's clear I have absolutely no knowledge, isn't it?
"woefully out of your depth" ring a bell?
| Quote: |
No but usually it is the main target and for many breeders HAS been such a target, which is why we have strains now that routinely produce 15+% THC and growers that can push THC production beyond those limits to 25% and 35+%.
25%!!! ONE FOURTH (just about, science is never exact), of an entire plant is just THC. That is beyond anything in nature. It just would not happen under most natural circumstances.
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Again with that
Wow....people will be thrilled to hear their yield on DS,Bags,ISO,BHO will be 25% of weight ....
Wtf are you getting this stuff from?....(most likely others as himself, who have written their articles without any direct knowledge or experience.....
What's next?.....your going to share how purple food coloring in rez will make purple buds?
Sticking a feather in your ass does not make you a chicken
| Quote: |
Now to correctly answer the initial poster’s question:
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A non grower with no growing knowledge or experience answering grow questions......
Correctly
Threadstarter....addressed above........
Let this guy sit in his "grow lab" making claims of 25% dry weight bubble runs
Think of genetics as your "input"....
High yields?......set up aside, you want to go with high yielding strain.....(or compensate with volume)
Prefer up high?.....stay away from hardcore indicas....go towards 60/40 crosses, etc.......
Quick finishing?......not going to get it running 12 week Haze crosses....etc.......
Genetics are genetics..... |
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