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4change
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 16
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 Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: Knowing WHEN to exit a traffic STOP - What are my rights? |
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Barry, I think you stated something to the effect that an officer prefers to finish the citation/warning section, and only THEN to ask for permission to search or ask further questions to better protect his rights in court somehow - which you suggested complying with any search request since a refusal is suspicion anyway.
HOW is one to know WHEN they are "free to go"? What are my rights during a STOP, and isn't this a very delicate issue? Whether a citation was issued or not, if they ask for permission to search, is it even possible to make a "friendly" exit before he asks for this, or further questions you about having any drugs or such? Seems to me it would be difficult and insulting to an officer if one knew they were actually free to simply drive away without answering, but is this what you were implying? And, wouldn't he just tend to make another STOP if one did so, or notify the boys down the road to watch for you?
Are there specific questions one should ask during a STOP, which might indicate when one is free to drive off without reprisal or breaking the law, such as "Am I free to go officer"? Should any questions NOT be responded to IF you would be forced to lie?
Are there better ways to handle this if one IS transporting contraband, to decrease the odds at being searched? Even if not carrying anything illegal, I've wondered if one can qualify giving permission, such as to "go ahead, as long as you don't mess up my stuff, ok"? My inclination - not having been in this situation - would be to say that I believe in the Bill Of Rights and would not give permission to search - but that's if I'm "clean". |
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FZRaven
Activist
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 290
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Your free to leave as soon as he writes you the ticket or warning. You don't have to answer any questions, other than your name. All you need to do is show your license, Insurance and registration. Feel free to not answer any other questions. |
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4change
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Interesting FZ; I've been stopped and ticketed by officers my fair share over several decades, usually for speeding. I'd think an officer might be offended or his suspicion aroused if I drove off without answering his questions, especially before he delivers my citation (or hopefully let me go seeing I've been pretty good the past few years). Especially if it's a Drug Interdiction officer as Barry was, aren't they likely to call out a "refusal", or if I drove off, be followed or alerted somehow?
What if he merely says he smells weed, then asks if have any, or worse, asks me to step out of the car, maybe annoyed at my non-replies? Of course I would presumably need to respond "NO" in any case. If I wanted to transport I would attempt to suppress the smell and hide it well. Maybe he made up a reason for stopping me to get a looksee at my profiled van; if he has a K-9, or if he asks specific questions such as "what's in that box", can one just drive off w/o responding - and should one?
Really appreciate this discussion, including from people in the "biz", on HOW to best handle a STOP, assuming one has reason to worry when stopped... |
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Brute4291
Mod-er-rater?
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 621
Location: Zion
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| A trick I've heard dont know if it works is simply ask the officer "am i free to go" after the citation if he doesnt respond then you are free to go. I dont know if this is true please correct me if im wrong |
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FZRaven
Activist
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 290
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| 4change wrote: | Interesting FZ; I've been stopped and ticketed by officers my fair share over several decades, usually for speeding. I'd think an officer might be offended or his suspicion aroused if I drove off without answering his questions, especially before he delivers my citation (or hopefully let me go seeing I've been pretty good the past few years). Especially if it's a Drug Interdiction officer as Barry was, aren't they likely to call out a "refusal", or if I drove off, be followed or alerted somehow?
What if he merely says he smells weed, then asks if have any, or worse, asks me to step out of the car, maybe annoyed at my non-replies? Of course I would presumably need to respond "NO" in any case. If I wanted to transport I would attempt to suppress the smell and hide it well. Maybe he made up a reason for stopping me to get a looksee at my profiled van; if he has a K-9, or if he asks specific questions such as "what's in that box", can one just drive off w/o responding - and should one?
Really appreciate this discussion, including from people in the "biz", on HOW to best handle a STOP, assuming one has reason to worry when stopped... |
It's true as soon as he's issues you the citation (ticket) you can leave. Barry will tell you the same when he has time. Here's an article about it, the officer himself testified that the driver was free to go after he had issued the citation.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4185/is_20040312/ai_n10177966
Now as for smelling cannabis, that's a whole new book. If he smells it he has probable cause which means he can search.
The best way to handle a stop is to be nice and act cool, just remember what Fonzie's like. The longer you are stopped the longer they have to find a reason to search your car. So if you can leave it's probably best to do so. |
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dawsonspaw
Pink Floydian slip
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 344
Location: Somewhere in the temporal space inside my mind
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I know in his video,he said"Remember it is not illegal,to smell like Marijuana,just to possess it. |
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4change
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, but to smell of MJ is certainly a reason to be searched, and if they find anything it's trouble ahead..
Sure seems ballsy to just drive away after even asking "Am I free to go" if the officer does not respond. I'd guess some LEO's would follow you to intimidate further if he felt slighted. Then again, I could see the advantage of doing so if one is transporting or in any way guilty of anything that might turn up if searched. IS the idea to drive off BEFORE he asks if it's ok to search your car?
Maybe the hardest thing for me to do would be to NOT answer any questions, to remain silent; sure seems this would make him/her rather suspicious, no?
Also, why do they wait to cite before asking permission to search? Does this delineate the formal charge/reason for being stopped, from a search via given permission?
I know I'm going to start carrying a copy of the Bill of Rights, keep it visible on the dash below the radar detector, give the hint of being a constitutional nerd... |
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Bongzilla
Stoned On The Mountain
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 243
Location: Mountains in E Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Memorize "Am I free to go?", if the officer says No, "What am I under arrest for?" Remember you were under arrest (cite and release) until the ticket was issued. You do not have to even address the fact that the officer requested a search. This puts the officer in a situation where he is more accountable for actions taken. Your replies are in effect a refusal without directly refusing. If they do search... and you do wind up in court this will be good ammo for a good lawyer. Also these replies are not as "suspicious" as a direct refusal.  |
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FZRaven
Activist
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 290
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| 4change wrote: |
Also, why do they wait to cite before asking permission to search? Does this delineate the formal charge/reason for being stopped, from a search via given permission?
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They like to wait till after cause at that point you feel like your good to go, so your more likely to consent to a "quick search". Hell wait till they ask if they can search, if they ask that means that don't have probable cause. If you know you have things of illegal nature in your car just leave you have the right. If they follow and pull you over again you can fight it in court, probably for harassment. |
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KrazyKracker
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| FZRaven wrote: | | 4change wrote: |
Also, why do they wait to cite before asking permission to search? Does this delineate the formal charge/reason for being stopped, from a search via given permission?
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They like to wait till after cause at that point you feel like your good to go, so your more likely to consent to a "quick search". Hell wait till they ask if they can search, if they ask that means that don't have probable cause. If you know you have things of illegal nature in your car just leave you have the right. If they follow and pull you over again you can fight it in court, probably for harassment. |
Hey I never thought about that... Thanks for the info.. I sure can use it down here... |
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Bongzilla
Stoned On The Mountain
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 243
Location: Mountains in E Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Also they wait until after the ticket is issued so they can testify in court that they did not coerce the search. "He was free to leave at any time when I asked for a search". |
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KrazyKracker
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks.. Every time I get pulled over the cops try and search me and my truck. I get tired of it so now I know for sure I have nothing to worry about.. |
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4change
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| KrazyKracker wrote: | | Thanks.. Every time I get pulled over the cops try and search me and my truck. I get tired of it so now I know for sure I have nothing to worry about.. |
So, DO you LET them each time? I've never been asked to be searched, despite being cited many times for speeding, so am curious to hear how others have handled the "do you mind if I search your vehicle" question, in real life. Good tip about driving off, and if again stopped, having a case against the officer - despite possibly being guilty of transporting etc.
BTW, do they first need the driver's permission to lead a K9 around the outside of your car, or can they only do it after finding reasonable cause they see inside or smell?
These days it seems more common to have a 2-officer team in a car, so it should help keep them a bit more honest about adhering to the constitution, you'd think.. |
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KrazyKracker
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Usually they throw up some bogus reason as to why they want to search my car. So if they say they have a reason and explain it to me I will let them. But if they don't give me a reason I tell them no. |
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FZRaven
Activist
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 290
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| 4change wrote: | | KrazyKracker wrote: | | Thanks.. Every time I get pulled over the cops try and search me and my truck. I get tired of it so now I know for sure I have nothing to worry about.. |
So, DO you LET them each time? I've never been asked to be searched, despite being cited many times for speeding, so am curious to hear how others have handled the "do you mind if I search your vehicle" question, in real life. Good tip about driving off, and if again stopped, having a case against the officer - despite possibly being guilty of transporting etc.
BTW, do they first need the driver's permission to lead a K9 around the outside of your car, or can they only do it after finding reasonable cause they see inside or smell?
These days it seems more common to have a 2-officer team in a car, so it should help keep them a bit more honest about adhering to the constitution, you'd think.. |
Nope they can lead the dog around at anytime they want, they use the dog to get probable cause to search the car. |
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