|
|
hamline01
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 59
Location: St. Paul, Mn
|
 Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
|
Yes it is, I wasn't arguing for crack.
I love to debate too, so this is super! 
The second amendment was written in the time of the militia, where people actually woke up every morning knowing that that day they would probably have to fight for their lives in some way with their gun.
In modern day society, gun ownership is more of a hindrance than help. How many times have we had to form a milita to drive off attacking Canadians?
The revolutionary war was fought with about 2 thousand regular solders and over 23 thousand militia, so the majority of Americas front like was militia by regular citizens.
In the case of invasion, war etc, we now have a big enough military that they can defend, and if need be (hopefully it never will again) there is the draft. So to 'fight for your country' you will be issued a gun some boots and a smart new haircut!
And YES those kids get their guns from mommy and daddy, so if we limited the access to guns for mommy and daddy, and eliminated the sale of easily concealable guns, ie hand guns, then the numbers of children with access to a gun would drop substantially.
Its true, there ARE still murders in the UK, but the number has dropped drastically! (I'm glad, I'm in London right now for the year) and this might be too far, but now knives are illegal to carry around as is pepper spray. That I think is taking it to extremes, but none the less with the mixture of that, security cameras, and more police, the crimes in greater London has dropped by the thousands!
I do, my proposal (or my idea) is to immediately stop selling hand guns, and have all gun owners check in their weapons (register them). I know this is already the law, but this way there is a large incentive for people to come clean. Then after a certain date, anyone with an unlicensed gun would be given a VERY strict prison sentence.
Then in the long run, try to bring the gun ownership down, getting it to a more reasonable level. Obviously this would be through a persons willingness to give up their gun (which would probably not happen that much) but that is ok. To start with we would just slow the sales of guns.
And basically that is my idea, just get it under control, enforce stricter laws.
And granted, there is always a chance of corruption and people needing to defend its self, even though I am pretty sure that in a civilized country that we live in it would not be a grusome battle but a political agreement.
But if this were to happen, there are more ways to get guns, I just don't think we NEED to have guns just on the off chance that we need to over through the government. (Is the patriot act over? Cause if not I bet that last bit sent up red flags!)
Well, I think I said all i want to now.
I DO know that this idea of mine will NEVER NEVER NEVER happen because of the 2nd ammentment. All politicians are too scared to suggest it and if it were passes, there would be a bunch of hicks running around screamin 'there takin our gunnnnnnss' and shotting people.
So I am talking about a Utopia world, but I can dream, cant I?
wow this got long....I might have smoked something earlier....and I just kinda went off on here......
cheers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dawsonspaw
Pink Floydian slip
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 339
Location: Somewhere in the temporal space inside my mind
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
OK,I don't own a gun,but I vehemently oppose to gun control,this country was founded on the premise that we have God given rights,and one of them is the right to protect yourself,if the government outlaws guns then I WILL BE AN OUTLAW!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
socrateez
Stoned Philosopher
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 1225
Location: I'm the person to your right.
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Its true, there ARE still murders in the UK, but the number has dropped drastically! (I'm glad, I'm in London right now for the year) and this might be too far, but now knives are illegal to carry around as is pepper spray. That I think is taking it to extremes, but none the less with the mixture of that, security cameras, and more police, the crimes in greater London has dropped by the thousands! |
Pretty soon you won't be able to carry a box cutter or wear shoe laces or belts lest you strangle someone. You cite just how far that system of control is extending its influence. You think it would be different here?
Every type of control that is given to government is taken to extremes by power hungry people. Power corrupts, thats why the PEOPLE were acknowledged with the right to arm against it.
Sad that they have succeeded so thoroughly at convincing people that our God Given Rights are outmoded, outdated, and unnecessary today. Big Brother has got our back folks.
By the way, "bear Arms" doesnt just mean gun ownership. Militant assemblies like Militias fall under that as well. Just like the revolutionary war guerrilla fighters.
Orwell and Huxley provide damn eerie analogs of today's political structures and methods. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BUSTED IN MO
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 51
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: From a disarmed POT-POW |
|
|
|
He who has the Guns...makes the rules... The Constitution, Amendments, Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, have NO EXPIRATION DATE! "A desire to resist oppression is implanted in the nature of man."
-- Tacitus |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hamline01
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 59
Location: St. Paul, Mn
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
I can see I'm outnumbered.......oh well.
Just don't complain when people you know get shot by someone. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr.C
Problem Child
Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 615
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
hamline
you sure typed a lot of words to say you dont like rednecks with guns.
HOWEVER,,,i do understand your compassion for your fellow man and i respect that.
i was gonna write a long response,,,but then i got high,,thought long and hard about it,,and realized
no matter the law,,,people are going to have guns,,,and marijuana |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hamline01
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 59
Location: St. Paul, Mn
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
And I realize that!
this is just if I was in charge/god.
People are going to die either way, its a shame, but thats life!
Yeah, most of those words were when I was high and JUST KEPT TYPING AND TYPING! haha
Long live murder!!! Cause life would probably be too boring without. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hamline01
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 59
Location: St. Paul, Mn
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
and its not that I dont like rednecks with guns, I dont like (or prefer not to have) anyone with a gun.
I've seen enough to make me not trust people in general, and if they have an easy way to kill people, I just feel uneasy about that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
High Man
Activist
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 235
Location: Space
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Your preference for people to not have guns is born out of propaganda put out by the military industrialized complex who wants nothing more than to strip you of your rights, such as owning firearms.
The second amendment was made so that it barred the government from disarming the people, so that the people if they so choose can rise up against the government (that may be oppressing them) and have the necessary arms to do so.
In the real (not off) chance we will need guns to overthrow the government, how are we to obtain them when the government has legislated away all our rights to obtain guns? What more ways to get guns will there be when there are no ways to get guns?
What then are we to use to fight against the militarized police force that subjugates us? Sticks, rocks, and harsh language?
Your hippie nature may call for these things, but it takes bullets and bombs to take down regimes and institute real change. Action, not words. Words can only do so much, but everyone's weakness is bullets.
The idea of peaceful protest and peaceful solution to me is another propagandist bullshit line the NWO military industrialized complex spoon feeds us in order to make us more docile and accept their militarized police state while they incrementally take control, knowing people will speak out and protest, but not really do anything, and easily be carted off to jail when and for speaking out.
And it's an entirely hypocritical line of propaganda, feeding us the idea of peaceful protest, peaceful revolution, meanwhile the governments march troops into countries shooting and bombing everything in their path in under the guise of peaceful liberation, peaceful solution. They militarize our police, who are supposed to protect and serve, who now arrest people who simply use freedom of speech, instead of protecting it. They throw us in gulags for no crime, and poison and kill us through our food, environment, vaccines, and any other way they can. Perhaps not an immediate death, but a slower, more painful dragged out process, where they not only kill you, but suck you dry of all your money first too. Yet we are not to fight back and kill them, stop them with any means like they us, that would be wrong pppppppppfffffttt.
Peaceful protests anywhere (especially places they don't want protest and free ideas)? Better have a permit. Whatever happened to free assembly? Now you need a permit to assemble and talk, disseminate free ideas and express free speech if there's to be a crowd. And god forbid people actually start listening and becoming aware, then they'll start forcing you to disperse and start gassing people and worse if they don't.
Guess what, if everyone at that protest brought guns, they wouldn't be arresting nobody. You think 30 police will fuck with 100, 200, 500+ people with guns? They don't want to die for $17 an hour.
But armed police sure can take on over 1000+ very unarmed protesters. An thus, our right to free assembly is in a way dismantled.
They feed us this line because they know that if we really got pissed enough, they could not stop a revolution of action.
If people think things will change by walking around holding signs and chanting words and slogans, they better wake the fuck up and start looking at reality and every time things have ever changed for the people.
2 forces change things, bullets and money.
Did this country become a country by people chanting slogans and spreading the ideas of freedom? No, we shot and killed the militarized police force and governing bodies that ruled over us until we succeeded in our goals.
Its either that, or we need a new police force to police the local, state, and federal police agencies, like a cop watch organization, who can arrest police on citizens' behalf.
The criminals who want guns for illegal purposes aren't going to gun stores and buying legal guns and registering them, they are buying illegal, unregistered guns to use in illegal activity. So why should we make people who have legal guns need to jump through more hoops to buy, own, and keep guns? Further legislation, further firearm registration, and so on, isn't going to stop someone from getting the illegal firearms they want from someone who'll sell them illegally.
And beyond that, I can kill you just as easily with a pen, pencil, other utensil, screwdriver, chopsticks... etc., as any other weapon. If I can throw a knife 10-20 feet and kill you with that should we start banning all knives because I can butter bread AND kill you from 15 feet away with it?
I said this previously about drug prohibition... Banning something will not stop the thing from happening. Someone wants to kill someone, they will find a way, be it with a gun, knife, club, car, or other object. Not to say we should make murder legal, but that if someone wants to kill you, gun or no gun, law or no law, they will do what they want. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BUSTED IN MO
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 51
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
 Very well said! That was Hitler's goal to disarm & make SLAVES or kill of people he captured. What happened in New Orleans??? They brought in BLACKWATER KILLERS... disarmed the people (not legal). Then the people could not protect themselves from looters. BUSH LIED... now we are in several countries KILLING UNARMED PEOPLE for FREEDOM??? Spending BILLIONS of $$$ While our Economy is Depressed to the point killing the middle class of America. My home was INVADED by POLICE about 10 years ago, guns in my face as I came out of my bedroom, NO WARRANT, their excuse was they had a warrant for my brother. Do I respect police, I THINK NOT, they violated my rights, my home, my family. I was never able to get anyone to do anything about it. No one wants to stand up to the police. The LAWS & SENTENCING for POT ARE CRAZY...The Research is trashed... for their goal: CONTROL. Will, WE THE PEOPLE...continue to have guns: YES...Will we use pot yes...Will WE THE PEOPLE ever stand up and DEMAND THEY CONFORM TO OUR DESIRES? That remains to be seen. As for the most part we are NON VIOLENT, but we stand by & watch as millions of our countrymen are imprisoned, stripped of their GOD GIVEN RIGHTS, ruined lives, families, futures, fortunes. Ever since They decided it was bad and passed laws to control us. It's up to everyone of us: THE BALLOT BOX, THE JURY BOX, THE AMMO BOX. POT-POW "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hamline01
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 59
Location: St. Paul, Mn
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
I can see that you all are very strong in your beliefs here. That is good! In all honesty, I do know that revolution is a natural process.
"As for the most part we are NON VIOLENT, but we stand by & watch as millions of our countrymen are imprisoned, stripped of their GOD GIVEN RIGHTS, ruined lives, families, futures, fortunes."
Why are we standing by?? You say in the event that we need to protect our rights, I dont know if any of you have noticed but the world we live in is going to shit.
You all talk of that we need guns for revolution, I am non-violent, but I would be on the front line of a revolution for peace and harmony with either a gun in my hand or a signed petition, whichever gets the job done.
Under our current regime my idealistic views of a world where no weapons are needed is a false hope. But I feel that this is a world that we should all strive for, a world where we dont NEED to kill people for liberty.
So again, I say, RIGHT NOW! my views would not work. Under our current government of corrupt bastards it will never work. And there are very few times in history that it has worked, but this is a world that I dream of, where you don't have to keep a gun in your glove box for protection.
I am not trying to ruffle any feathers, I enjoy shooting those fucking little clay pigeons as much as the next person, but again, its diffrent today when anyone really can carry a pistol under their jacket to blow away the first person that pisses them off as opposed to when people carried swords, to protect their families.
It is one thing to protect, and another entirely to give ultimate killing power, to the government or to a citizen.
And did you compare my ideals with Hitler? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
socrateez
Stoned Philosopher
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 1225
Location: I'm the person to your right.
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Belief that humans can actually achieve something like Utopia is what drives the NWO or what ever you want to call the socio-political pattern we now have. They however know that utopia can only be a forced state unnatural to the vast majority of us and only benefiting the elite.
It is a nice dream to be sure. Rainbows are nice too. Ever see that pot o gold at the end? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr.C
Problem Child
Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 615
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| socrateez wrote: | Belief that humans can actually achieve something like Utopia is what drives the NWO or what ever you want to call the socio-political pattern we now have. They however know that utopia can only be a forced state unnatural to the vast majority of us and only benefiting the elite.
It is a nice dream to be sure. Rainbows are nice too. Ever see that pot o gold at the end? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hamline01
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 59
Location: St. Paul, Mn
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Way to poop on my ideals!
I know utopia is never going to happen because the vast majority of mankind is not ever going to be ready for it.
Oh well,
You can be pro guns, I can be anti guns! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
von
Jerry Garcia
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 351
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
i know there are gun laws that are strict. i was given my first gun a double barrel 410 at age 14 by my father. and he did not give me the shot gun and say go, he showed how to use it responsibly. also to get a hunting lic. to shoot a gun you have to pass a state wild life and fisheries test. we have gun racks for our trucks. i don't know what a red neck is. farmers carry 22 rifles every were they walk and have two more on the rack in the truck. we were raised around them not to fight each other but for protection from wild animals and hunting. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN CHASED BY AN ALLIGATOR, one shot from a 22 don't stop them. i personally have guns. and i am a non violent person and i don't carry a gun. i have a gun safe locked.
everyone has a right to there own beliefs and opinions.
good day people,
peace & pot |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
