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trox9999
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: Bad Guys? |
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| narcdet wrote: | | The cops entered the apartment to do a sweep of it to make sure no one was inside, since the bad guys could still be inside or the apartment owner could have been inside and hurt. Once inside they saw the weed and bong in plain view. At that point, seeing that nobody was inside, they had probable cause to secure the apartment and get a warrant to further search it. Your friend could very easily have been busted. The cops were just nice. |
I guess this is more for Narcdet and everyone else, but why do cops and ppl refer to other people as bad guys? I think alot of so called "criminals" are actually good people not bad guys.
You hear it everywhere it's pop-culture. But are we programmed to think this way? , I think alot of "criminals" are mis-guided like, growing up sometimes thats all they know, does it make them a bad person.
Narcdet, for example just in your response to Varth's post you labeled the guy who broke in,as bad and the cops who let the weed owner off the hook as nice.
But should the cops also be labled bad because their actions were in defiance by not enforcing the law when they should have or are they good or in your words nice law-breakers, or the robber actually I'll use a real life example: about two years ago,this large dude went into a grocery store and stole, the security or clerks chased him all the way out the parking lot wresltled him to the ground jumped on his back and stayed on him for the cops to come, he ended up dying from the way the grocery store clerk employees handled him, turned out he was stealing baby formula to feed his starving baby at home...now a bad person or no.
On the flipside.
If a serious criminal let's say a murderer does a good thing like donates some of the money he robbed off that old lady he just killed behind an alley to the blind, does that make him a good person anymore then when human beings do bad things it suddenley makes them a bad person?
I see them as misguided, mentally unstable, or someone who made a mistake, I guess I seem to think bad and good is what's on the inside of a man not just his actions or choices that he makes.
But a cop may just get a call about a potential burglary or domestic, not even seeing the ppl will turn to his partner and say "alright let't go catch some bad guys".
Its kinda like Dexter who hunts and kills serial killers cops can't find or Robin hood who stole from the rich and gave to the poor,were they good or bad?? Can this judgment be made simply on actions and deeds??just a thought..(a long one.. lol) |
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socrateez
Cannabis Castaway
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 1152
Location: Sittin in a cave, high as hell......
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Reduction to stereotypes is common to us. At its most basic, its the "us"-"them" scenario. This can be scaled from two people to countries at war. Its our main social dynamic and so shows through in our civilized man.
Since I am on the side of law and moral right (officer in this case) I am "us" and he(suspect)is obviously not one of "us" so is "them". "Them" are usually suspected criminals "bad guys". It would be natural for an LEO to refer and regard people in such a manner.
Although unfair, we ALL generalize, stereotype, or profile our world and those in it. How else are we to make sense of anything? |
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narcdet
Civil Libertarian
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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I have to say this..using your example of the guy that stole baby formula and died, that's ridiculous. I see firsthand all the programs available for people with zero money to get free food/clothes etc. for their children. Was the guy bad? I don't know, but he was a thief, and I would make a guess that if his criminal history was looked at it would show that that baby formula wasn't the first thing he ever stole in his life.
I consider myself pretty liberal, but I guess I also see in black and white. I look around at all the people that work hard for the things they have and then I see the people that can't, or won't, hold a job who go and steal from those that earned what they have. I label them as "bad". I have no use for them, so yes, a burglar is "bad" in my opinion..not some poor misguided soul. It is a shame if they were raised that way and that is all they know..but I would simply say that they were raised "badly" and now their actions are "bad"
I can see that morality cannot be a purely objective construct, which is why philosophers have been pondering it for as long as man has been around. It is, to some extent, subjective. So in my subjective opinion those that steal from others are "bad" |
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sharpend43
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Newark DE
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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i'll keep it simple, CRIME= BAD
JOB, responsibility, doing the right thing= GOOD |
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Bongzilla
Stoned On The Mountain
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 243
Location: Mountains in E Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| narcdet I agree with you on the basics of your argument. My only real disagreement is that once a person is branded a criminal, that record and stigma follow them a very long time. I have been involved in many stupid activities, had I gotten busted and locked up I would likely not have had the opportunities and choices presented to me that allowed me to change. I couldn't go to school with the help I have now. I couldn't work where I do with the trust my boss and community place on me. |
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trox9999
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I look around at all the people that work hard for the things they have and then I see the people that can't, or won't, hold a job who go and steal from those that earned what they have |
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Can't = incapable for whatever reason as in not possible. Won't= choice. if a person is not capable of holding a job not because they are not hard working but for a valid reason, when he steals to save his life can he be condemened. You mentioned various food programs ans shelters and stuff. My point was not that stealing is good or bad my point or question was why do we label people good or bad? and my argument was is the person him or herself rightfully labeled good or bad based simply on their actions?
Quickest way to paint this is, you hear over the radio that a man shot and killed another man, your mind labelles him bad later in court you find out that the victim had a gun and was about to kill the man who shot him. So it was self-defense, but using your arugument because killing=bad the shooter is now a bad person, thats black and white.
| Quote: | | but I would simply say that they were raised "badly" and now their actions are "bad" |
True but the question asked in this post was why ppl label offenders bad and can their actions alone determine that. I guess what i'm saying is that human beings are complicated and the dynamics underlying their particular decisions or a choice they may make at a certain point in time should be tooken into consinderation before jumping the gun and labeling them BAD. Because I would say to you then as a cop your bad because I am almost certain you have done and possibly still do bad things in your life and based on your own arguement you would also be labelled Bad based on those actions but I don't see ppl this way some yes but not all. It is subjective though like you said I will agree with you there and therefore has no end . |
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progrocker
Antiprohibitionist
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| sharpend43 wrote: | i'll keep it simple, CRIME= BAD
JOB, responsibility, doing the right thing= GOOD |
lolz
Job, responsibility = being a tool of society. Unfortunately we are only given the two options listed above. |
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FZRaven
Activist
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 285
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| sharpend43 wrote: | i'll keep it simple, CRIME= BAD
JOB, responsibility, doing the right thing= GOOD |
Ah but here is were it becomes a little gray. When we decided we had enough of the British and broke the law to start our own country it was a crime. The question is was it bad? It's not always bad or wrong to break a law, sometimes it's good and the right thing to do.
You try to lump everything into the same category. What you need to realize is there is not just a black and white, there is also varying shades of gray.
The laws are made by man, so the laws can also be undone by man. |
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socrateez
Cannabis Castaway
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 1152
Location: Sittin in a cave, high as hell......
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Most LEO's seem to be comfortable with a such simplistic models. They are not generally hired for the ability to be a free thinker or moral philosopher.
They are guard dogs and they have been fed gun powder by their handlers. A few wouldn't eat it. |
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von
Activist
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
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BAD people go to jail. GOOD people go to jail. i say smoking pot helps me live a good and productive life. but leos want to put me in a cage for it. so does good really = doing the right thing? or leos always right.  to many good people loose there rights [life] over such small amounts of cannabis. gotta keep leos pay check comming in, or leos would have to lower there pride and take another job.
peace, & pot |
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